Curse

Winston · Mar 17, 2010, 02:04 AM // 02:04

Maybe slightly OT, but is it still possible to rock up to ToA with a Splinter/Barrage Ranger and get into a team?

I never got into the the SC thing but always enjoyed FoW/UW even though it may take a few hours to complete. I guess I never really played for the reward, just for the fun.

Kaleban · Mar 17, 2010, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Your conclusion does not follow from the tale you told. You recite the problems, then you assert your theory about why they occurred, but you present no evidence or reasoning linking the two together. Moreover, when the noob finally does as your theory says he should in order to improve, he fails, and fails to ever improve. To me, that would imply that your theory is wrong. At the very least, it's useless, because it does not offer any insight into solving the problem.

Still Number One is absolutely right.

The reason? An inexperienced player in UW will not "learn the ropes" because he or she is being told when, where, and what to do, because the team, assuming a non-SC run, does not want to spend several hours only to fail.

The ONLY way human beings learn is by failing, trial and error. You don't change if something works brilliantly, which is why GW is so horribly flawed, it caters to the speedclear/gimmick builds because they afford players the greatest reward for the least effort.

If you truly think otherwise, then you are extremely naive. There is a wild card for "natural talent" just as in some sports, but still requires practice and learning.

If you need a good example, here's one: Pick nearly any sports team in the world. More than likely it did not finish first in its respective championship nor even likely qualify for "playoffs" the year of its inception.

Humans learn by making mistakes and then applying the lessons learned to future endeavours. All of you who think the rosy alternative are fooling yourselves and will be one of the reasons GW will continue to suck, and that is burying your heads in the sand to the real problems and issues.

Cuilan · Mar 17, 2010, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winston

Maybe slightly OT, but is it still possible to rock up to ToA with a Splinter/Barrage Ranger and get into a team?

Splinter barrage is so weak, it can't really rock up any location.

I find myself in many inexperienced PUG groups for UW, but I dare not give build advice when I'm on a lower tier profession since I don't often lead. Of course we fail from lack of damage and poor builds. Human error, too, but mostly awful builds.

animal fighter · Mar 17, 2010, 04:08 AM // 04:08

lol @ this whole thread. gz you can complete UW, wanna know why? you're in a group with people that have done it a million times. UW is just like HA, experience = win.

anyone that thinks it takes any sort of skill to do either UW or HA clearly needs to play a game that actually requires skill (IE not guild wars or any other shitty MMO). 'noobs' are just people that haven't completed whatever you're doing as many times as you.

WarcryOfTruth · Mar 17, 2010, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by animal fighter

lol @ this whole thread. gz you can complete UW, wanna know why? you're in a group with people that have done it a million times. UW is just like HA, experience = win.

anyone that thinks it takes any sort of skill to do either UW or HA clearly needs to play a game that actually requires skill (IE not guild wars or any other shitty MMO). 'noobs' are just people that haven't completed whatever you're doing as many times as you.

Not true, I was in an HA party what won the Hall of Heroes once and I had only been playing the game a month or two. As for your comments about this "shitty game" if that is how you feel about it, why are you commenting on a forum about said game?

Zodiac Meteor · Mar 17, 2010, 04:55 AM // 04:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by animal fighter

lol @ this whole thread. gz you can complete UW, wanna know why? you're in a group with people that have done it a million times. UW is just like HA, experience = win.
anyone that thinks it takes any sort of skill to do either UW or HA clearly needs to play a game that actually requires skill (IE not guild wars or any other shitty MMO). 'noobs' are just people that haven't completed whatever you're doing as many times as you.

First time in HA, got 4 wins in a row... with a trapper.
Luck was clearly on my side, however,

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElnoreVarda

Its the party leaders responsibility to make sure the party works. IE, that people have the right builds, know how to use them, make sure they know the vital stuff about the area, make sure there are cons (if needed), that people have picks and clean inventories and other things that might be important.
If you have people in the party that sucks and you didn't notice while you were setting up in town, then you need to work with your team management.

!!THIS!! If an experienced person controls the entire team you can win. That's how my first time at HA trapper won, I was told: what to do, where to go, when to do it and who to watch.

You have to micromanage the people and get them to listen to whoever is in charge. Doing it flawlessly once, can make the person really know how to do it flawlessly again.

Today, I did Frostmaws HM (Ironically with Cuilan that randomly pm'ed me

) and 6 other PuG's. I didn't ask for their experience with the dungeon, plus half of them didn't ping. All it took was good healing and a tank that knows what to do (Thanks Cuilan) with a cleanser mesmer, ER Infuser, PnH, 2 Barragers, 1 dervish attack spammer, SoS rit and a weird assacast ranger? We rolled the dungeon in about ~30-40 minutes.

Frostmaws is hard as hell, yet changing a PuG into a organized amazing team only takes 1 person.

Morgwen · Mar 17, 2010, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

!!THIS!! If an experienced person controls the entire team you can win. That's how my first time at HA trapper won, I was told: what to do, where to go, when to do it and who to watch.

Agree...but old UWSC didn't work this way, every sin had a mission to complete alone...how could one experienced person control every single player in UW? They're simply out of sight...

I haven't try UW post nerf, but the team mechanics seems the same as the old UWSC to me...Every single PG has 1 or 2 miss to accomplish on his own... One experienced Player saying to MNT pg what to do while he's finishing chamber is not feasible

isildorbiafra · Mar 17, 2010, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Word of advice. Minimize lost time by clearing chambers followed bij wastes and plains. If a PUG is going to fail it will be on those maps. Make it true; and you have a winning team.

BuD · Mar 17, 2010, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

If you need a good example, here's one: Pick nearly any sports team in the world. More than likely it did not finish first in its respective championship nor even likely qualify for "playoffs" the year of its inception.

Colorado Avalanche. First year in the NHL 1995. They are the 95-96 Stanley Cup Champs.

Olim Chill · Mar 17, 2010, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuD

Colorado Avalanche. First year in the NHL 1995. They are the 95-96 Stanley Cup Champs.

They were the Quebec Nordiques the year before (NHL franchise since the late '70s) - not a new team from scratch.

He shoots...deflected!

Neith · Mar 17, 2010, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

Still Number One is absolutely right.

The reason? An inexperienced player in UW will not "learn the ropes" because he or she is being told when, where, and what to do, because the team, assuming a non-SC run, does not want to spend several hours only to fail.

The ONLY way human beings learn is by failing, trial and error. You don't change if something works brilliantly, which is why GW is so horribly flawed, it caters to the speedclear/gimmick builds because they afford players the greatest reward for the least effort.

I disagree. I learned the UWSC by asking questions and following directions not by making my team fail at it. I learned normal way by the same method. If people are not smart enough to ask questions...such as "Am I allowed to take the quest? Which quest am I allowed to take? which path are we going? who do we aim for? where should I place my spirits? who do i follow? Who are we nuking?" Then they shouldn't be partying in those areas. Those are questions that should be running through a players head anyway because of the missions and quests they would've already done in order to get to ToA, Chantry, or Zin Ku. They can also ask "Why don't we follow this path? or Why can't i take all the quests at once?" That way they can learn without making the team fail.

The only thing I agree with in the quote is that GW is catered to the SC/gimmick builds which is sad that is why we don't use those in my guild. If you want to use those find a party that is willing there are many out there, but when you party with us we don't use those.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRaven

This guy has the right idea. He's a real pro. He knows what he's doing and he's willing to give folks a chance provided they aren't total morons and follow his instructions. He's also taking pre-cautions to guard his team.

I'm a girl

Zodiac Meteor · Mar 17, 2010, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olim Chill

They were the Quebec Nordiques the year before (NHL franchise since the late '70s) - not a new team from scratch.

On the argument of experience = good, there is 9 years old in the Tae Kwon Do class that was really good at double kicks. At his first tournament all he did was double kicks every round. Gotten first place, only to have been kicked once out of all of his matches.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Me

If an experienced person controls the entire team you can win. That's how my first time at HA trapper won, I was told: what to do, where to go, when to do it and who to watch.

Quote:

Agree...but old UWSC didn't work this way, every sin had a mission to complete alone...how could one experienced person control every single player in UW? They're simply out of sight...

UWSC is currently impossible because no builds are founded yet.

You would be surprised spending a lot of time, constructing a perfect team you can do just as good as any guild group. Now this can be good an bad, I've been on teams that it took 1 hour to build the perfect team yet beat the Ooze Pit in 15 minutes.

TheRaven · Mar 17, 2010, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neith

I'm a girl

Ooops, So sorry madam.

sthpaw · Mar 18, 2010, 01:44 AM // 01:44

all this UW talk made me itching to have a crack at it last night, completed icy wastes quest and 4H quest few others but stuffed up at unwanted dunno why but the vengeful killed the reaper and we were at vale killing the keeper there

gonna have another crack at it on the weekend.

btw who is harder to beat mallyx (in his room) or dhumm?

Risus · Mar 18, 2010, 03:27 AM // 03:27

To every single person saying that they have never done it and have to start somewhere, here is my response: FIND A DAMN ALLIANCE TO TEACH YOU

Don't join a PUG and expect just because you pay cons we will be content, because you are wasting more than our money, you are wasting our TIME. We don't join a PUG to watch someone attempt to learn an area then fail miserably because Youtube doesn't answer your questions. We join a PUG to finish. So keep your learning to an alliance or don't learn at all.

Also to prevent this I keep a MASSIVE blacklist, I'm trying to get one of my programmer friends to create a simple program to cross check names on the list with party members and tell me if one is on there and why.

edit:

Quote:

UWSC is currently impossible because no builds are founded yet.

Lies, I've already done a full clear in HM in <2 cons. Alliances have builds. Mine does, I know DL does as well. Its not hard to make a build, all you need is experience and a few hours of testing new builds.

lambda the great · Mar 18, 2010, 03:38 AM // 03:38

That's funny. noobs in UW/FoW . haha

Reformed · Mar 18, 2010, 03:44 AM // 03:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by sthpaw

...dunno why but the vengeful killed the reaper and we were at vale killing the keeper there

btw who is harder to beat mallyx (in his room) or dhumm?

The center group will occasionally overextend and aggro the reaper in the Labyrinth, kill those first. As far as pure bullshit skills go Mallyx still wins.

sthpaw · Mar 18, 2010, 04:08 AM // 04:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reformed

The center group will occasionally overextend and aggro the reaper in the Labyrinth, kill those first. As far as pure bullshit skills go Mallyx still wins.

thought so but some1 in the team said otherwise, then tele us to vale, then felt bad lolz.

mallyx is cake even in room, consume soul or gaze of fury is ftw.

Ellis 404 · Mar 18, 2010, 04:34 AM // 04:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

The ONLY way human beings learn is by failing, trial and error.

First off, no. Secondly, even when we do learn from failure, it doesn't have to be our failure. I've never put radium on my teeth yet I still learned it was probably best not to.

Trip555 · Mar 18, 2010, 11:18 AM // 11:18

There was a time when I was pretty angry about noobs, that was when I wanted to get a FOW/UW statute.

Nowadays I'm absolutly relaxed.

I found it funny that people think: "Oh Shadow Form got nerfed, now I can do Ice Wastes with my Defy Pain Warrior."
Did it got buffed?- No.